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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Jun 7, 2006 4:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: dead.net

I don't recall as anyone BLAMED anyone. If I appeared to, I apologize. Yep, the wealth of free downloads was really amazing. You'll never see the likes again. Sorry they got removed, wish I'd gotten a few more, but that's life.

The point I'm leaning on is that the naivete of the Dead in allowing us to pick their golden eggs for free has come 'round to bite them on the ass. That's their problem. And noone here put them out of business. BUT that doesn't alter the fact that lessons can be learned.

Remember that Dick's Picks was launched after a crew member came to a band meeting with a fistful of illegal boots. The Dead realized that it was losing out on fair revenue and decided to market itself. Meanwhile, all these SBDS kept popping up. Suddenly they are right here free for all to share. Why the Dead didn't shut off the valve back then beats me--except to say it's that old artist's naivete again.

The band HAD the right to keep their property off the streets but chose not to. I think the archive was very admirable in hosting the boards and I think all the fans were justified in getting the stuff back at least in streaming format. No one is accusing you guys of wrongdoing or culpability. It is simply a logical suggestion that the proliferation of live material and the
poor marketing strategy appears to have halted the production of any new nuggets from the vaults. My concern ain't Bobby's back pockets. He's doing fine on hot sauce or whatever he's hawking.

What is sad is that because of this side and that, there may be no more great releases for now if ever AND there are no more SBD downloads on the archive.

Please tell me who won? Archive downloaders? No. Dead.net downloaders? Apparantly not. You? Me? Jerry?

No need for vitriolic flaming. Though I'm sure some is headed my way.

As a note: Sugarmegs.org is still streaming a lot of stuff that was once here but now gone.

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Poster: glenn Date: Jun 8, 2006 8:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: dead.net

NO. The band had absolutely no right to 'take back' the soundboards which were recorded on OUR equipment and using OUR tapes. The very fact that most of the good soundboards exist is that we taped them, digitized them and preserved them by circulating them in lossless format.

The archiving/circulating process is a superior archiving process to the Dead's hoard-them-in-a-vault-and-pray-they-don't-degrade process.

The Dead became huge across 3 generations in large part due to the fact that there was so much music out there for free for all to share.

As far as I am concerned, the Dead are welcome to have copies of any Dead music I have, and are welcome to sell it. I'll even buy it. What is not acceptable is to try to stop the free trading of what was ours as soon as it hit our tape decks.

MILLIONS of dollars worth of recording equipment was purchased specifically to record Dead shows, MILLIONS of dollars worth of tape was purchased, countless hours were spent by countless fans, sorting those tapes by quality, and preserving them by sharing them.

Whatever business model they choose to use is not the issue, the issue is that you can't legally 'take back' what wasn't yours, by which I mean the tapes WE taped, not the ones the Dead taped. They can sell them, but it's legally fishy to try to OWN them EXCLUSIVELY.

I don't feel one bit sorry for their financial problems, every single member of the Dead has wasted more money than I have earned in my whole life.

It would have been far more profitable to sell whatever they chose to sell, without trying to take back what they gave away already. That was a dumb move and it has alienated thousands of their most devoted fans.

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Jun 8, 2006 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: dead.net

"We" taped the soundboards? I don't think so. A lot of those sbs got out without the band's approval. Copies were loaned or given with the stricty understanding that they not be traded. Millions on taping equipment? Has anyone kicked your door in to confiscate a single tape? Noone has threatened you, questioned you, denyed you, or in any way attempted to diminish your right to upload/dowwnload audience tapes or to trade the sbs you have. So what's your beef? With me?
For saying that the dead were fools in the first place? That they made a choice and then found out that--for them--it was a bad one? Why not see the glass as half full, my friend, and that the dead were pretty damn generous with the goods? Hey--thanks guys for letting us record and thanks for letting us trade and download. Thanks, not %$## you. Do you always show this type of response to those who have been kind to you in the past? Those who did you favors and decided not to do anymore? Does saying no diminish all of the yes's?

Your anger is neither justified nor aimed in the right direction. I agree that it was lame of the powers that be to stop archive from hosting the sbds under the pretext that archive.org is "selling" them by taking in donations.
I would argue that the band should decide once and for all what it wants to release and have at it. Removing the Fillmore West sbds for the box set seems silly since the box set is complete, uncut, and remixed to perfection. I had all those sbds and jumped on the box immediately.

My point is that they shot themselves in the foot, not that anyone is wrong, evil, or malicious for downloading. The dead could have stopped internet downloads years ago, when it first started. They didn't; so too bad. I am not blaming anyone here for the direct demise of dead.net. I'm merely ponting out that they were sincere in their desire to curtail the downloading, not capricious or interesting in persecuting you or pissing you off or denying you what you incorrectly believe is your God (or Jerry) given right to take whatever you want or otherwise ruining your life. It's business, and if you won't accept the group's right to conduct business as it wishes, then boycott them, by all means.

But I see no purpose in getting your hackles up other than to show that you cannot be happy enough with what you did download. Do you get this angry when your parents take away the car keys?

Perhaps it's time to get a life?

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Poster: glenn Date: Jun 14, 2006 4:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: dead.net

I'll say it again:

The archiving/circulating process is a superior archiving process to the Dead's hoard-them-in-a-vault-and-pray-they-don't-degrade process.

The Dead would need hundreds of full-time curators to keep from losing a digit, we did it for them for free. The music will always be there for the Dead to sell because we spent so much time spreading it around.

That's a pretty good thank you right there.

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Poster: midnight sun Date: Jun 8, 2006 11:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: dead.net

...it's just that we hoped to go on believing it was about a whole lot more than just business...thats all.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 8, 2006 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: dead.net

i agree - i always hoped that myself. however, it appears that even when it seemed it was about a whole lot more than business, that was only because business was good. it seems to me that, since it's been almost 16 years since jerry's passing, the demand for the product in general has gone steadily downward. i don't know the numbers, but i see far far far fewer young people being interested in the dead than i did even 3 years ago. it has just gotten old. with such apparently shrinking interest, no wonder the GDP is in financial straights. i agree that it is no ones particular fault - it is just the way it is - the dead have just gotten "old" outside of the hardcore fans (and believe me, they were dwindling also, long before the sbd's were removed).

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Poster: orchiddoctor Date: Jun 8, 2006 11:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: dead.net

"the dead have just gotten "old""

Excellent point! Add to that there are different stages--the pigpen era, the Godchaux period, Brent, Vince (RIP all), and not everyone likes all the different "deads."
So, not everyone orders each D.P. And I hope noone orders those gold shirts (well . . . )

There are always bean counters. There was an interesting article in Rolling Stone in 1973 when Wake of the Flood came out. The article was titled (on the cover) The Corporate Dead. Nice contrast to Workingman's Dead a few years earlier. Garcia talked about the endless cycle of touring and office costs requiring more touring and so on just to pay the bills. Europe '72 was recorded (thank God!) to pay for the tour, a tour partially designed to sell more records. Remember, they "retired" in 1974 due to the grind of having to tour larger venues to pay for the wall of sound which was designed for larger venues and so on. All successful bands become business ventures whether they want to or not. The Dead were just more naive and hands off than others, a fact which Lenny Hart must have appreciated.

But the dead's "capitalist" venture allowed them to keep the mother rolling for thirty years!

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Poster: liranfa Date: Jun 7, 2006 6:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: dead.net

No offense but what seems to be lost on this post is the fact that Deadheads were notorious for their innovation and cleverness. If Archive had not allowed GD shows to be posted here then the Deadheads would have found a way to share them somewhere else. Furthermore, it has been admitted by the band that one of the main reasons they became so popular was the fact that they allowed tapes (soundboard or otherwise) of their shows to circulate. The reason dead.net went down is sheerly due to poor management and their general disconnect with the fans since Jerry passed.